Dan: Welcome back to the show and
thank you very much for tuning in.

Once again, this time round, we're
going to be speaking to MiraEx MiraEx

develop photonic sensing but primarily
distributed quantum computing solutions.

We are taking another dive
into the world of transduction.

The confluence of optics and
Microsystems, allowing integration

of bulky components functions onto
a millimeter scale using traditional

semiconductor fabrication techniques.

We'll be talking to Daniel Brau.

Daniel's the CEO.

Of MiraEx.

He's been in the role.

Almost two years.

Um, With a.

Background in photonics.

And yeah, this is going
to be an interesting chat.

Hope you enjoy.

Let's go.

So Daniel, thank you for
joining us very much.

Let's let's do our usual thing and start
the conversation with a bit of an intro.

So who are you and what do you
work for and what's your role

and how did you get into quantum?

Daniel: Thanks for inviting me.

Daniel Brau worked at MiraEx now for
the last 20 months coming from last job

was in the UK for the last four years
as managing director of a photonic based

company and decided to move to Quantum.

And that was I think, motivated a long
time ago where I fell into quantum 30

years ago after my university studies in
material science and social physics and

I really wanted to come back to quantum
and so here you go and MiraEx is a startup

company from EPFL, so based in Lausanne.

And we are definitely doing quantum
here with quantum converters.

So I will tell you a bit
more later on about those.

Dan: Great.

And EPFL, that's in, is that Switzerland?

Daniel: That's right.

Dan: Yeah.

And what's the ecosystem like there?

Is there a whole startup ecosystem
and a kind of support network?

Daniel: Yeah, it's the second
second most dense startup ecosystem

after Zurich in Switzerland.

And you do have some of the
pioneers, quantum pioneers

there especially in transduction
which is the subject of today.

So yeah, you've got about five
labs actually dedicated to quantum.

And in terms of startup
quantum based very much.

We're the only one here.

Dan: Okay.

Very nice.

So you've joined 20 months ago.

You said, I guess the startup's
older than that, right?

It's what happened there?

Why did you get brought in?

Was it a scaling thing?

Was it as the company was growing or
was there some other reason for it?

Daniel: That's a very good question.

I joined in to, to actually get the
company focused on to its quantum journey.

So what happened was what we had
in the past was another activity

focused on fiber optic sensing.

And the one of my colleagues.

Job was to find out whether we should
carry on with this activity or not.

And in the end, we're not.

We are exclusively now
focusing on quantum.

And as the CEO and with the
board of directors, we are.

Making sure that we on the right track.

Strategically speaking, we're
on a company and concentrate all

our resources on what we can do.

And that was, I think, the best
decision from MiraEx to actually focus

a hundred percent on the quantum.

Dan: And as the CEO, I guess there would
have been some leadership beforehand.

Was there a shuffle around?

Looking online, I did see that
there was, you had two co founders.

Those guys still there?

Daniel: Yes.

We have one of them still with us.

And it's it's really great because
MiraEx started back in 2019.

And so we do have quite a good
experience now in quantum as well

as good footprints with some major
actors in the quantum ecosystem.

So that's a great thing to, to still
have one of the founders on board.

Steve: So in Switzerland it's
technically not part of the EU, and

I know that in the UK there's some
difficulties with collaborations.

Between UK and EU, is it similar for
Switzerland or have you had no problems

collaborating with companies in the EU?

Daniel: Interesting question.

So we effectively we are banned from
most of the EU programs in Switzerland.

We are, there are some initiatives
in Switzerland to compensate

for this, and one of them.

We managed to grab which is actually
organized by Innosuisse, which is

the innovation agency in Switzerland.

So we started a a SIP the SIP
program, which is the acronym

for Startup Innovation Program.

And that program is Going for well,
we started that in July last year, and

it's running over three years period
and that's going to be funded up to 3.

5 million with 2.

4 million non dilutive and
1 million from own pocket.

So that's typically this kind of
initiatives Switzerland has put

together, in order to compensate
for the lack of funding from the

EU, which is great, obviously.

But at the scale we are in quantum it's
relatively little the Our politics are

actually taking the what, they do actually
move it in the right directions, to make

to see that, to make sure that quantum is
actually taking the right footprint in a

country and we're not just underfunded.

Steve: Yeah, that's a, I keep
hearing these stories depends

where you put your company.

It makes a big difference in what
kind of funding you have access

to and what programs you can join.

Sometimes it could become a problematic,
but it's nice that, Switzerland is

doing something to compensate or else,
it could be much harder, most likely.

Daniel: That's right.

Steve: Okay.

Dan: So what is your
footprint in Switzerland?

Have you got labs and Relationships
with universities as well.

Daniel: Definitely.

The EPFL.

We, we have so we are on the
innovation campus at EPFL.

So one of the startups up there.

So we've got own dilution fridge
where we can actually test, all

the components we are developing.

And we do have access to some of
the labs there we do have some

collaboration, existing collaborations
with some of the Quantum Optics Lab.

We've got two, two major ones out there.

And the new lab, which is the
superconducting, superconducting

quantum information lab that's
just been starting since last year.

Yeah, we do have a good
interaction with academia.

That's great.

Dan: Nice.

Let's move on to the technology, shall we?

So you mentioned transduction.

I think you also have converters
where do you want to start?

Maybe if you could tell us about
your the portfolio you've got

first of all, and then we can dive
into each of them as we see fit.

Yeah.

Daniel: Okay, so we do yeah, as
far as the focus on quantum we're

developing quantum transducers, quantum
converters, and quantum repeaters.

So these products are finding
critical usage within the whole of

the quantum ecosystem, actually in
quantum sensing quantum computing,

and quantum networks respectively.

That's the, Portfolio we, we we're
trying to build at the moment.

Dan: And are all these three
product domains focused on

the same types of technology?

Are you using microwave
and optical in all of them?

Or is there some relationship to
quantum dots or some other medium.

Daniel: So the primary yeah the
platform we're using allows the

direct transaction, from micro
frequency to telecom wavelengths.

So in other words, it's The products
that we make reconcile frequency domains,

which are almost, five decades apart.

So yeah, primarily it's microwave
to optical wavelengths conversion.

But the.

Platform itself is can do a
lot can reconcile frequencies

are much closer to each other.

So typically, 750 nanometer
up to 1500 nanometers.

We could you could actually
link other modalities like that.

Think of, neutral atoms or or trapped
ions, together with optical frequencies.

So we could do that with
using the same platform.

. Steve: So when it comes to connecting,
let's say two superconducting quantum

computers, when you put this technology
into those devices, what happens?

Is it like how far away are we from being
able to actually entangle these two types

of these two distinct quantum computers?

Is it something that can be done
soon or what's the biggest hurdle

to, to solve to entangle two
superconducting quantum computers?

Daniel: We're looking at our road map,
which is very well aligned with startup

innovation program mentioned early on.

So we're looking at carrying the releasing
the first minimum viable product in 2026.

And the Plenty of hurdles, it's actually
a daunting challenge, we've undertaken.

The first one is to build a ultra low
loss transmission lithium thin lithium

niobate device so that we can confine,
an optical pump into it and then, having

superconducting electrodes that will
confine the microwave signal and make sure

that this confinement is as most efficient
as possible over a long traveling wave

structure that these are the main, Yeah,
these are the main challenges we have to

face at the moment, and not to mention,
obviously, the coupling with fiber optic,

so the edge coupling or mainly edge
coupling, actually, and make sure all

that actually is sustainable and operates
to specifications up to specifications

within typically four Kelvin environment.

So that's one part that's
building the hardware.

And on top of that, we need to also
build quantum error correction techniques

to assist in the transduction process
to make sure that we can boost the

efficiency as much as possible and
lowering noise as much as possible.

Steve: Interesting.

And the transaction is specifically
for microwave to optical.

But.

Something in between is that
what we call a quantum converter?

If you want to do microwave
to something else, can you,

what do you think about that?

Daniel: So the difference between the
two is for the quantum computers, you

need to keep the quantum coherence when
you operate the transduction process.

And whereas if we're looking just
at a conversion, from microwave to

optical with anything else parametric,
amplification or process built in.

These are different processes that
we can actually select by engineering

a photonic crystal structure onto
the thin film lithium niobate.

So we select a process according
to the manufacturing process that

we're going to be implementing.

Steve: And the applications then
would be different than distributed

quantum computing, for example.

Daniel: That's right.

So anything to do with, transferring,
quantum states from one dilution

fridge to another will involve the
converters, the quantum converters.

Whereas anything to actually convert.

I choose a transduction from RF to
over fiber, for radar application

including, optical squeezing
and or quantum like processing

will be the quantum transducers.

Dan: I was going to ask, fundamentally,
what's the difference between

the converter and the transducer?

I think you've answered that partly there,
but I don't think I've fully grasped it.

It sounds for the converters, you
were talking about transferring

state between two dilution fridges.

Does that mean you would, you're
essentially just continuing

to use microwave wavelength as
you transmit microwave photons

across to the other fridge?

Dilution fridge without
using telecom fiber.

Daniel: No, you do use a telecom fiber.

So you actually.

The process itself is to actually you
do the conversion from from microwave

photons effectively, a stationary
photon within the dilution fridge,

and that gets converted right into
an optical photons, and that keeps

the quantum currents along the line.

So that is transmitted afterwards
through a fiber optic networks, and that

would be at a LAN scale effectively.

And then you do, because this is a
bidirectional process, you can do exactly

the other the other conversion back on
the other side from optical to microwave.

And again, within that process,
keep the the quantum coherence

and so that you can actually
exchange entanglement, from A to B.

Dan: Yeah, that's how I understand
and understood transduction.

So what is the specific difference
between converting and transducing?

That's the right use of the verb.

Daniel: Conversion is is based
on a a bi directional process.

So you can actually do that from microwave
to Optical Domain and vice versa.

Whereas the conversion the transduction
you can only do that in one direction.

And it involves other processes as I
mentioned, param optical parametric

amplification is one of them.

And you could you could do also you
could do also have over potential

processes involved, such as the
generation of entangled pairs.

But it's everything you do is,
unidirectional for transducers, whereas

for converters is bidirectional.

And you keep the coherence, with the
converters, whereas with the transducers,

the coherence is no longer there, but
you can actually do some post processing

using some quantum enhancement technique.

Dan: Okay, so I understand the
unidirectional piece now but it sounds

if you lose coherence and there must
be some different process that's

happening inside a converter is it
that the coupling between the two

different wavelengths is different in
a transducer than it is in a converter?

Daniel: No

Dan: why is the coherence affected?

Daniel: so it's going to, it's going to
come back into more into physics there.

So for the converters, it's based on
a beam splitter Hamiltonian, so you

can actually exchange photons, from
one frequency domain to the other.

But the other one is not.

And the gain also if we're to put that
together, the gain plays a lot of, when

you actually go for the transduction
process, you apply some gain into the into

the process, and that gain is definitely
not good for keeping quantum coherence.

Dan: Okay.

Okay.

Yeah.

Super interesting.

Thank you, Daniel.

. In our previous conversation,
you also mentioned direct

resonant and indirect resonant.

How is that relevant?

. Daniel: So what we are doing is
direct conversion and we think

that's the best way of doing it.

Mainly because we can also make use of
our traveling wave structure, which is

by nature large offers large bandwidth.

So typically when we are looking at qubits
operating, let's say in a range of five

to 10 gigahertz, let's say maximum you
could with a single with the same design

actually carry the conversion, from, let's
say, keep it operating at four, five, six

gigahertz or up to 10 or more if you had
some without changing the design at all.

And that's a big advantage when you're
trying to, build millions of qubits

together is that you don't have to fine
tune your components to, to the actual

frequency your qubit is operating at.

So that is a really nice advantage.

The other advantage is you can, because of
the large bandwidth you can also pick up.

more than one qubit at a time.

And if you want to re encode
information that's a great advantage.

Whether you do that within the
microwave domain or the optical

domain you can actually start thinking
of quantum assisted, transduction

by introducing some cat states.

And that's I think one of the
key aspects of our technology is

that it's, based on a broadband
technique that allows to increase

the capacity communication capacity.

So that's what we're trying to do,
but with qubits as opposed to bits.

Dan: Yeah.

Okay.

So thanks for the, it always goes
down into the physics, doesn't it?

And that's where I start
flailing about a bit.

Which is the, this is my, this is,
This podcast really is a core part

of my learning process at the moment.

And I'm going to just risk it by
going into some deep questions again.

Earlier on when you're talking
about the hardware, Daniel, you

mentioned photonic crystals.

Can you tell me what they are?

And you said they, they're sitting on of
the kind of the, superconducting film or

whether it was the lithium Alloys that
you're talking about, lithium niobate,

Daniel: that's

Dan: So yeah, if you could
elaborate on that'd be nice.

Daniel: Okay, so what we're building,
and this is actually published in a

patent that's been delivered to us now.

Is the what we're doing is that we're
engineering photonic structures which

will allow us to, to select or to
engineer pseudo band gap functions.

Okay.

So when we do the non linear mixing
between the microwave and pump we, what

we have, we're resulting at the end,
normally it's two, two other frequencies

and we want to suppress one of them.

So what we're building there is
effectively a Bragg structure.

And so it's etched over the
thin film lithium niobate.

And the reason we call it photonic
crystal is that it's a periodic

structure that is reproduced over
relatively large scale, typically a

centimeter scale to enable that process.

So that's why we call it photonic crystal.

And the function is to do a sideband
suppression when we do the non linear

mixing process with a microwave and an

Dan: So that's how you calm down
the photons before they hit the space

where they interact with the microwave
photons, because they're so loud I'm

probably using all the wrong terms, but
they're that the is so much higher.

Daniel: That's right.

But the what we're trying to
do here is just selecting, the

right band suppression mechanism.

And the Bragg structure
is the way to, to do that.

Dan: Okay.

Thank you.

We've been talking already about with
quantum computers and you alluded

to, going beyond superconducting.

Is your technology specifically
suited towards superconducting?

Are you looking at other modalities?

Maybe if you could lay all of
them out for me so I can get a

view both now and also your goals,
over the next couple of years.

Daniel: Yeah, the platform is
mainly directed at trying to create

a quantum LAN effectively with
superconducting quantum computers.

This is the focus from MiraEx for
the next two and a half to three

years, at least, trying to build a
hardware that can is enabling that.

And one of the reasons we're doing this
is because up to now, superconducting

platforms have been the most mature.

And however, other
modalities are catching up.

Yes, to answer your questions,
it's not exclusive to to, to

superconducting quantum computers.

What we're trying to do here is when
we can look at the converters also

to be useful optical communications
with near infrared photons, so telecom

wavelengths, when they use this repeater.

So we, we could use two converters
back to actually create optical to

microwave to optical conversion.

And having in the middle, obviously
some useful quantum error correction

deployed again, thanks to the broadband
design, we can take a set of logical

qubits to, to perform that quantum
error correction and then move from,

the kind of the what we, what people are
planning just now, trying to do quantum

error correction in a probabilistic way
to a more deter determined stick way.

So that way we can link quantum resources
together via an optical network.

And they could be pretty much and.

In terms of wavelengths, although telecom
wavelengths 1550 c band seems to be the

one is most preferred because of obvious
losses reasons across the networks

So yeah, we could use those
converters for that too.

And the other transduce the other
ones the transducers, The obvious

applications, anything that requires
RF of a fiber conversion with optical

processing or quantum enhanced optical
processing, we call it that way.

Makes a lot of sense.

With.

For instance, if we take radars
or enhancing radars or satellite

communications also take
place in the microwave domain.

So that is a direct direct use
or technology, for well in space

actually in the next few years.

Dan: I've got to ask, it's just
occurred to me that almost every

conversation I've had with somebody
from the physics domain or the quantum

domain, when they talk about telecoms
fiber it's always the multimode 1550

nanometer wavelength that's considered.

Now, actually, the large majority
of, Fiber, telecom fiber in the

telecom space is actually on LR
single mode which is 1310 nanometers.

Does it make any difference to the fact
you're doing conversion or transduction?

I, in the telecoms domain, LR is used for
longer distance, long reach applications,

it's 10 kilometers type distance.

Whereas multimode is, a
kilometer or something, or maybe

even less in a data center.

What there any benefits you think
in using a lower bandwidth or

is it sorry, lower wavelength?

Or is it just that it's because
it's already so high, it's not

going to make much difference.

Daniel: It's going to put more
pressure on designing a Bragg

structure that is obviously smaller.

So it's already quite challenging,
to make Bragg structure, for 1550,

but 1310, it's will be another
challenge, but yes, doable.

You could actually consider operating
down 1310 When the engineers listen to

that, they're not going to be happy.

But yeah, on paper, yeah it's doable.

Dan: Okay.

So the, I thought it would be easier
because the wavelengths are closer,

but actually it's going to make it more
difficult because you need to make the the

wave guide or the Bragg structure smaller.

So the nano fabrication is more difficult.

Daniel: That's right.

Dan: Fascinating.

Yeah.

Daniel: And the more pressure you
put on Nanofab, obviously there

are tools, modern tools to do this
afterwards question of money investment.

There's no problem.

You can't solve it with money.

, this is typically this is typically,
what we could do it would be

potentially doable on 1310.

Steve: So in another direction,
thinking about scaling the network up,

you mentioned one of the directions
is to build quantum repeaters.

Do you see this as an extension
to kind of metropolitan scale or

even larger distance networks?

Or is this kind of a data center
with quantum repeaters using

the same technology to extend

Daniel: That's a good question.

There are some limits, because I would say
that the shorter the scale, the better.

Just to avoid losses.

So yeah, anything which is local
area networks and having cross cross

modalities, different type of quantum
computers connected together, that

would be the main, I think, goal.

Trying to have something a really long
distance is always challenging because

of the optical losses within the fiber.

Unless, come up with absolute as I said,
solid quantum error correction code

which is what we're aiming for anyway.

But that will be the longer term, to off.

The first thing we need to do is
build the converters properly, good

efficiency, good quantum error correction.

And then once you've got that
building block, you can build

the quantum repeater afterwards.

But yeah, I would say short shorter
distance better and trying to link or

entangle multiple modalities together.

That's the goal.

Steve: Okay, so it's not about
something like a quantum memory to

do some kind of swapping procedure.

It's about using error correction, this
third generation quantum repeater instead.

I guess it makes sense, you don't have
to change the technology as much to

accommodate for quantum error correction
as to put it into a solid state.

That's potentially a different
modality as to superconducting.

Okay.

Daniel: Yeah, I think there's
already some good demonstrations

of quantum error corrections on
different platforms, whether they are

superconducting platform, cat cubits
on superconducting domain, works well.

There are some good demonstrations.

There were some good publications
also in Santa Clara last year on Ion

traps and neutral atoms showing
that it's actually quite effective.

So I think it's a really nice
way to pursue and to make quantum

interaction effective and deterministic
as opposed to probabilistic.

Dan: I want to double click a little
bit on the error correction topic

just to clarify my fuzzy brain.

Error correction is, as you described
it, there was you mentioned cat qubits.

So obviously think of Alice and Bob
there, which is a hardware architecture,

which means that you don't get a
particular type of impact to the qubits.

I can't remember if it's a
bit flip or a phase flip.

One of them, I think probably a bit flip.

It stops that from happening.

Error correction that you're talking
about taking place in the network

here, yeah, I think you gave an example
where you're going from photonic to

microwave and back to, sorry, from
optical to microwave and back again.

In that scenario, would you have,
are you talking about having a

quantum computer in between the two?

Or you, were you referring to some
kind of error correction happening

on the link in your hardware?

Daniel: That's a very good question.

Effectively if you were to, if
you lose a set of logical qubits,

whether they're going to be optical
or microwave it's a building a tiny

little quantum computer, isn't it?

So you're going to have a
kind of framework to, or at

least to have some yeah.

in logical qubits where the
physical or optical available.

Dan: And is the error correction in
that scenario, to the software error

correction that's being You know, the
different error correction techniques

which are being developed at the moment.

You've got surface code,
you've got the LDCP is it?

And a bunch of others that I
can't remember the name of.

Daniel: Mhm.

Dan: It's the same technique then by
the sounds of it, just implemented.

Daniel: We still need to
do to dig a lot into this.

So we hope to actually start new
project with actually with the U.

S.

Government on that topic.

Requires a lot more resources than
just the engineers that MiraEx.

But yeah, we're exploring this.

I can't tell you much more,
I'm afraid, on the topic.

Apart from that, we we do have
some development ongoing which

will which will address that topic.

Dan: Okay, yeah super interesting.

thanks for that Daniel.

Steve: Okay, let's see.

So I'm thinking about, as a someone who
comes from the networking perspective,

I'm thinking, okay, we talked about
the hardware, the physical layer.

What about the upper layers?

What about the software?

Is that also something you focus on?

Is there a need for complex software?

Do you partner with someone for that?

Or what can you say about those
kind of aspects of the technology?

Daniel: this is something that
was started back in 2019 when

MiraEx joined the IBM Q network.

And the founders one of the founders
actually who you know Karel Dumon actually

has got a really good expertise on that.

And yeah, there's there's a
lot of work that's been done on

that in in the last past years.

At the moment, I must say that the
focus is on the hardware because

without the hardware, we're not going
to be able to to go any anywhere.

So we need to demonstrate some
good efficiency conversion

and assisted transduction.

Also techniques.

Then comes the upper layer,
as you mentioned, and that is

definitely some work to be done.

With you guys typically, see what
kind of protocols are going to be put

in place and make sure that we match
those protocols as as the best we can.

I would say at the moment, I'm
not saying it's a non priority.

It's something we need to work on
probably in a staggered fashion.

But yeah, hardware first and just
afterwards, we'll we'll definitely,

we'll need to liaise with people
like you to make sure that we

are, what we're developing is
aligned with what you're expecting.

Steve: I guess that leads to those
compatibility questions and then one

thing goes to another and you talk about
standards and so I've seen, there's

coming up now multiple versions of
transduction, different proposals for

doing transduction and it seems like
it's time to start perhaps putting

together some consortium of people doing
transduction who can start developing

a standard or is that already in place?

Daniel: I don't think there's
any standards, but yeah,

that's, there's some in the U.

S.

it's not true.

In the U.

S.

there are some, initiatives
to, to actually address this.

But coming up with a standard is,
yeah it's, we're still at our stage.

People are, focusing on the hardware
and trying to develop some, platforms.

Steve: I've seen some, it's those
intro, putting together the definitions

of what components are, what do they
represent, what are they supposed to

do in a high level, and then, that
brings people together, and then

perhaps, ten years from now, Standard
can evolve from those documents.

I see it in the quantum internet.

Research group and part
of the I-E-I-E-T-F-I.

Oh that.

Yeah, exactly.

IETF.

Yeah.

So I wonder if the transduction is
probably about to have one of those.

It seems like because it's becoming
very important and more people

are focusing on it as time passes.

Daniel: that's right.

Dan: but it's very hardware
orientated, isn't it?

So

That's not a fit for the IETF, but I
wonder if certainly a standards body or

an alliance of some kind, I don't know, it
might just be one of those domains where

you know if you've got the right photons
going in and the right ones going out,

it doesn't matter how it's implemented in
between, and there'll be some proprietary

technology for a long time to come.

Perhaps.

Daniel, let me just jump back.

You mentioned IBM Q.

What is that?

It's the first I've heard of that today.

Is it a ecosystem type, thing with IBM?

Daniel: Yeah, that's when the IBM Q
network was where it's basically the

possibility to join the community where
you have potential access to some of

the IBM tools so quantum computers
effectively, and to develop some any of

program skills, that would, facilitate
implementations of quantum resources,

whether it's a circuit knitting or
qubit operation for the gate fidelity,

anything that helps effectively
making IBM system works better.

So that is that's an initiative
that we we joined at the very

start of, MiraEx in back in 2019.

Dan: Okay.

Thanks.

What, what does being part of that
that network mean for MiraEx in 2024?

Have you still got some
active work going on with IBM?

Daniel: Yes, we do.

We do.

And we it's, yeah, it's
a great introduction.

And it's also yeah, it's good.

It's good to talk to to these people.

They're definitely market leaders,
it's good to talk to them.

Dan: Now, maybe we're looking way
into the future now, because as you

said, you're focusing on the hardware.

You want to get the statistics as
high as possible for your products.

You want to get it right.

Reliable and mature.

So maybe I'm looking a bit further
into the future here, but what about

with sensing, do you believe that
transduction is necessary for sensing

or your products might be useful
for sensing in the future in any way?

Daniel: for sensing, as I said,
mainly for introducing different ways

of RF sensing whether that's for,
as I said, radars Satcom changing

potentially all the processing to
optical processing which is a change

of paradigm for for this industry.

So that could bring, anything, in terms
of weight, size power consumption,

which is what matters, for typically
SATCOM applications but also for radio

detections when you've got multiple inputs
on multiple output devices up there.

So you need to have really small
compact devices, low cost with

large broadband capacity to actually
enhance the radio detection.

So that's, I think, in terms of
sensing, if we call it quantum enhanced

sensing as opposed to quantum sensing,
it's yeah, we can have a good impact

with our technology in that field.

Dan: Yeah.

I'm very interested to see how that
field emerges having just read a

detailed paper on quantum sensing.

It's, that wasn't something
that I'd come across.

Yeah, that's Yeah, you're talking
along the lines of interacting with

RF in the environment somehow, and
then using optical to carry the

information about that, at a high level.

Is that a good description?

Daniel: That's very much it.

So it's direct RF detection, so conversion
into optical domain, and then processing

into the optical domain which is, we use
our transducers to, to convey, optical

parametric amplification to, to signal
to noise, and we can also use like

squeezing properties of our devices,
to actually beat the classical limit,

and hence the detection capabilities.

So that all that together is
definitely potentially bringing

some, bit of performance
Compared to two existing systems.

Steve: And in the direction
of future outlooks is there.

Perhaps a need a use for novel
like fiber technologies that

could enhance their system.

For example, this trend with the
hollow core fibers Could that

improve for perhaps some aspect
of the system or the transduction

actually I haven't looked into this

Daniel: to be honest.

We need to dig into that prior
to answering that question.

Then perhaps you can invite us back
and can have a discussion about it.

Dan: But yeah, go and have a look at it.

So it's a, it's where they take multiple
core fiber cores and stretch, stretch them

out and then put them back together again.

And then you end up with.

a much bigger hollow core.

So instead of, okay, I'm not a physicist,
but instead of having a very high,

refractive index that keeps the photons
inside the fiber, it has multiple fibers

in a ring on the inside of the fiber.

And then that stops things going out.

So the.

Steve: The

Dan: Photon will stay inside.

Steve: Like the medium is essentially
air so it's much better loss rates I

think the frequency can be different.

I don't know if it has the
same trend with the 1550, 1310.

I think it's, it has better performance.

Much harder to manufacture, but
apparently there's some companies

working to manufacture hollow
core fiber for commercial use, so

could change in the future soon.

I, for me, I'm interested to see what
people have done with hollow core.

I've only seen one or two experiments.

I'm sure there's more, but it's
interesting what people have done so far.

Daniel: Okay.

It's good to know.

If you can send me a reference,
I'm happy to dig into that.

Dan: So Daniel, just one final thing.

What about the team at MiraEx?

Have you got a big team around you or

Daniel: it's it's a concentrate
of one of the best brain

I've ever seen, to be honest.

Quite a few from the U.

S.

Especially, from Yale
Boulder really great people.

So it's mainly for quantum optics
and superconducting superconducting

platforms QC platforms.

We've got people obviously
in micro fabrications or nano

fabrications, we call it.

So we've got I have a lot of
experience, more than 40 years just

into into that into manufacturing.

The anything to do obviously
with the physics itself with

simulation, got a good group too.

And obviously people we actually
can put all this together.

We have hands on experience into
actually set up dilution fridges

and putting components in, starting
lab from scratch effectively.

So a small team of 10 at the
moment in quantum and moving up.

In terms of headcounts and as I said,
we're not, we're trying to leverage all

of this Swiss quantum ecosystem, trying
to work with either the labs, EPFL,

there's a big quantum center in Zurich
too with whom we are also collaborating.

And thanks to our US citizens, we're
also opening up, collaboration in the

US, which is which is a great thing.

Steve: Yeah.

Nice.

I think being in multiple places you've
experienced the different ecosystems.

The US ecosystem is different
than in Europe, especially in

computing and communication.

It's, you get a bit of best of both
worlds of European plus I guess

Swiss , Swiss Plus plus the us.

That's nice.

Daniel: That's definitely in the plans to
to set up a branch out there because most

of clients and also are located up there.

We, short term or short medium
term, definitely there will

be some incorporation of
MiraEx out there in the US.

Dan: Okay.

All right, Daniel.

Thank you.

I think we'll wrap it up.

That was fascinating.

for sharing all of the insight
about your company, your technology

and best of luck to you.

Daniel: Thank you.

And looking forward to come
back eventually with less

noise or background noise.

Yeah.

Dan: Yes, we will only welcome you
back when you're way more coherent.

Daniel: Excellent.

Dan: great.

Bye for now.

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